Can you tell how the team of 2^nd generation and the people they represented thought about expressing themselves in the 1990s?

I am a second-generation British Indian who grew up in South East London. I met the team of 2^nd generation at a book launch party. It was always very interesting at 2^nd generation, these were people who also you know they had a had a sense of who they were, but it wasn’t going to just be limited by anybody else’s superimposed vision of who you should be and how you should behave, and you know the performative aspect it was down to you, you know they are really how you carried it, not because you were trying to prove a particular point. It happens in every culture particularly in cultures where you find yourself either is any miracle or in some other way of minority that there seems to be a special premium placed on how you acquit yourself in public it’s made its way to carry weight that perhaps it should have to carry, and I think that magazine was a very useful conduit for many of us you know it became a way to just slightly really ******* with the edges. 

While working on WE magazine, my priority is to highlight the hybrid fashion adopted by diasporic communities in the West. Since you belong to this community in the UK, can you tell me your personal experiences and observations on the Indo-Western fusion style? 

I have a slightly complicated relationship both to the British state but also to the idea of India itself because I’m the child of partition refugees, both my mom and dad were refugees. You know that’s if anything is going to mess with your life it’s that. There’s wholesale trauma, there were people who were Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, there were all together. And we were unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. whatever but they never not all of them but large numbers of them never really fitted in afterwards and so lead some of the earliest migrants to the UK were people to actually have that sense old stable home back in India. I’m talking about people like my father, they were in too much pain but they were playful. They did not have the a serious understanding of what accompanies the notion of cultural identity. It was like an arcade, culture and identity are going to be whatever was possible in the given circumstances. Despite of that, they looked fantastic, I am thinking about your project and magazine and the notion of fashion. I am thinking about men in the Workers Association, they were radical workers groups. there is some sort of connexion between radicalism historical experience and then that these guys were you know they were anti colonial so they were you know agitating for Indian independence way back in the 1920s nineteen 30s in the UK but also they were agitating for Labour rights here yeah so they were actively involved in you know working class struggles in this country and you know for example proper working conditions in the foundries the factories and even schools for their children. I mean it’s just you know because people were excluded from so many keys spheres of everyday life and so these radical folks but the thing that I mean you know two always stayed with me was that they looked great they look fantastic I see old images of the level of the guys who used to organise outside the factory gates there there and then they got their high waist trousers you know that that they look you know I’ve got old beautiful old image but bad where there’s a very handsome guy anyway pretty they stairs go high waist this he’s gotta pretty rakishly perched. you carried it well at funny enough that story hasn’t really been told you know, the story of Indians in the UK and it has been a version of it has been produced and that’s fine and I I don’t have any issue with that but as with all versions it’s a partial fragment then I think there are far more like ragged stories round the edges which have yet to be told you know there there the ones where that style and fashion and patter and music performance, sexuality united it’s all day till there in a mix of them and it a far less orthodox tale that needs to be out there. 

What do you think about independent magazines?

The independent edge of publishing where people are taking creative risks, where everything is not subordinated with the desperate need of making money, everything else seems monetised in mean time, the idea that there are some things, some conversations that you have because you have to. This also sounds like a labour of love on your part, you want to communicate something that you are experiencing, if I’ve understood correctly. 

How was the tone of 2^nd generation was received?

Received fairly well, I think because it really helps when you know your editor is in your corner. Imran was a fabulous editor. That was a great help. I felt embolden to write and tell stories that I wanted to talk about the London social experiment. I wrote very boldly, I wasn’t lukewarm about having uncomfortable conversations. 

What would you like to comment on the stereotypical perceptions of Indians in the UK today?

I would like to refer to it as ‘The changing same’. There’s a duality, on the surface level, politically, economically etc. But there are some elements that have remained static. It has become less liberal minded, The culture here has always required outsiders. When we came here, we had to learn how to stand up for ourselves and we managed to carve out a niche for ourselves. What’s happening now, with the notions of stereotypes and Indians, for some of the entrepreneurial people they have found a way to make the stereotypes work for them. It’s really impressive. The stereotype remains intact, there Is a cumulative value that attaches itself. There is less racial violence for sure, on a pragmatic level. There is a flip side too, there seems to be a certain loss of backbone, the loss of character whereby, to speak boldly has diminished, partly because where Indians reside is also where power resides. I think all the playfulness and young mindedness has gone, it’s a sad thing. 

1. Do you prefer reading printed or digital magazines? Why?

Printed because I can more focus off screen.

2. What according to you is missing in contemporary fashion publications today?

I’d like to start with what is excess, the celebrity influence is pretty much seems to be dominating fashion. And what seems to be missing is the cultural influences, culturally rich content that makes people think about more things rather than just buying the latest trends – content that makes readers ponder upon what is going on the in industry. 

3. How do you think the fashion media industry will evolve after the global pandemic?

I haven’t seen much change apart from shopping online – although BLM made a massive impact on fashion. I speak from the consumers point of view. A lot has change din terms of the production processes, when I say production I mean everything including apparel, media, etc.

4. What do you think abut the hybridity between the Indian and Western fashion cultures?

It been existing since a very long time, we all know that. I like the hybridity, I am one of the people who follows the hybrid trends. I’ve lived in London for 4 years now, I wear a band gala with a blazer, or wear Mojris with a tux. Hybrid fashion is an opportunity for individuals to innovate and stay creative on a personal level. I think most of the fashion that exists today is hybrid. Most of the European designers I work with create collections inspired from various parts of the world, and vice versa. Some do it right and some end up appropriating native cultures. Between India and the West, I specifically think about Manish Arora’s work that has brought out the true hybridity of Indian and Parisian fashion cultures since almost three decades. We see this increasingly nowadays and I love it! I prefer wearing a banarasi brocade pant suit instead of wearing any other suit. It helps me stand out, embrace my culture, my country and express myself as a fashion enthusiast and a part of the LGBTQ community”.

5. Do you think the influence or the impact of the Indian fashion culture in the West is highlighted enough in global fashion? 

No, its not. not just the influence but also the talent from Indian seems to be under represented. 

6. Have you tried to encourage this in your own practices?

Hybrid styles? Yes a lot. Mostly with Ranveer Singh and Deepika Padukone. 

7. What according to you the biggest difference between working in India and the West?

The work ethic, appreciation for creative jobs and commitment to innovate.

8. Would you say that there is a need for a platform to highlight the complicated notion of visual representation of Indian people, fashion and culture globally and promote hybrid cultures? 

Yes of course. Because it’s important and I haven’t seen anyone do this in the publishing business. Absolutely yes, without a doubt. This is something that has not been thought of. I read articles about migrants and British Asians talking about the challenges they have overcome but the angle of them evolving with hybrid identities and carving out their own niche not not explored much.

a bit of format of by the magazines I wanted to ask you about your personal preferences do you prefer reading printed magazines or digital magazines called interactive magazines 

Ram – I think that’s a very difficult question because there’s so many types of magazines that are out there now I mean obviously I did have the love for you know the touch the tactile sense with the magazine the written word you know yeah the written word and how it feels on the paper obviously you can’t take a maybe like an iPad to the beach and you have this weird refraction of light on the digital a digital surface and then once the battery is gone is gone then you have to go 4 hours again to go and yeah I think there needs to be a new dialogue potentially with how magazines are because obviously they seem to be stuck in old system systematic way of production and I think maybe like you know with the recycling is it more sustainable element of the magazine

you say that in relation to the content or the format of the magazine format 

Ram – Format, I mean the contents always there I mean you know obviously people who have different types of tastes that you look at different magazines you might be into philosophy you might be into fashion you might be into you know trash you know kind of trash culture consumer culture but at the end of the day from my perspective I like a good balance of maybe the word is hotchpotch it’s like a hotchpotch of different kind of ideas different images something that I haven’t necessarily been seen before and not overload of information I think that’s quite the throw away the magazines are now I think you know you have those kind of throw away magazines that you know that come out every week and you don’t necessarily get enough out of them I think what’s the quite nice is when they challenge your mind when they have interesting articles interesting writing poetry maybe more intellectual type of read thought 

that brings literally the next question what you think is missing in contemporary fashion publications today (when we talk about ID or days or tank maybe)

Ram – I think contemporary fashion publications I think they’re very like when we talk about ID or days or tank maybe they just celebrity obsessed I think and their celebrity obsessed but they don’t necessarily go deeper into critical thinking like for example they do have interesting articles that have lots of vacuous images and I think the images alone they are they seem throw away because you know you still have the same images on Instagram constantly and it’s the same thing so that don’t really offer anything as much having said that they all the springboard for ideas and there have been for many years I mean but I would I would say that you know when Terry Jones first started ID many years ago it was far more interesting because it was a very thin type of publication where it was almost like a throw away type of magazine and you know the very first issue with Nick Knight and Skynyrd and it was very kind of more of a  cultural statement you know like sub cultures and I think right now the subcultural. Context has become so fast we seem to have lost the subculture’s so it seems to be very consumer orientated that doesn’t seem to be an ID there anymore that identity is gone OK so they wanted from their original I would say they’ve totally diverted I would sailor ID magazine I remember when I was working with Terry was all fresh and even before that it was the mad go to magazine if you look at the early magazines in the archive you will see the graphics the images you know there were there was the strength and they reflected club culture as well at the time but now I mean even be pre Covid there wasn’t as much of a strong club culture there wasn’t a very there wasn’t a very big Culture Club I would say either you know and when ID was in its heyday as you know the bands like the Culture Club you know Boy George and everything was a really big thing you know Ray Petri all that gang it was quite amazing there was something that you would it would almost be you would go to the club you would buy the vinyl you and then you would buy the ID magazine and they all kind of sat together but I think prior to that you know even at the same time they were magazines like blitz all those kind of magazines they made you feel that you were they were like almost like having that magazine in your hand or having that magazine on your table in people would come to your apartment or your house they would say oh you’re part of that club so it was almost like a key yeah validation yeah exactly it was like a key like even friends who would see you there was always like all you read ID so yeah you’re cool or you rethink but now it’s like this plethora of thousands of magazines and they haven’t seen they seem to have lost their ID along the way you know and that’s what I think is really missing at the moment.

Do you think the fashion media industry is evolving or changing the way it functions after the pandemic? Do you see a lot of change? Because you’ve been working and have you seen a lot of changes apart from the protective measures do you see a lot of changing the way the thought process is so kind of short people are wanting to do it has become more ethical do you think they think that consumers are becoming more conscious do you have you seen that change in your personal practises recently 

Ram – not really no I think there’s a I haven’t I mean I haven’t seen it in my purse 

I think there’s a I haven’t I mean I haven’t seen it in my personal practise but I would say there is a big change a big changes that you know fashion will never be the same I mean look at the shows the past few weeks and empty runways, Jeremy Scott with the little mannequins you know so what’s happening is we’re having all this. Fashion has to think of new ways to engage with the consumer and with the customer you know because sometimes that during the covert thing what do people don’t what are they going to dress up for you know there’s no way to go there’s no nothing to do you know and you know where you’re trapped in your environment but how can you put yourself out there and that and if you do look good maybe it looks vulgar to look great you know so in a way there is this whole kind of the circular kind of battle I think with the way we are with fashion and I think once things open up more then we will feel freer but then fashion I would say has to adapt like is adapting with technology is adapting with new devices if adapting with futures of fashion communication and I think that’s for brands magazines and you know like you know like hybridization of different ideas you know like what you’re doing is great you know it’s all about kind of hybrid identity’s and I think that’s the future the future is that we need to kind of find an affirmative way too address world issues through fashion.

so I recently read this report by Dazed named Monomas and they’ve come up with this whole notion that the new consumer specifically the Gen Z and millennials consumers who’ve got hybrid identities – like you could be into Hard Rock or punk music but you’d go to yoga classes and have dinner at a really bougie restaurant at the end of the day so it’s not how it was earlier like what you did defined your identity’s but now it’s so complex as the consumer wants more and they have different identity’s within themselves imbibed within them do you agree with that ?

ram – I kind of disagree Disagree I don’t think the consumer wants more I think the consumer basically did one more pre covid I think now the consumer is very careful about what it spends its money on and I think you know that’s what we’re thinking even there is a surplus of money because you’re not spending money on low day to day life so the consumer basically necessary doesn’t want more in terms of fashion I would say the consumer would most probably want more in terms of quality and maybe sustainable solutions to fashion and this whole ethic of you know being politically correct is opening the youth iron I love you look at extinction rebellion I need to call these youth movements there will be a transition into people the youth thinking and I think that’s got a lot to do with new creative thinkers that is okay now to think you know there was this whole there’s a documentary which is really interesting at the moment called the social condition which is on Netflix and it’s a really good one to watch and it’s showing it tells you about how how you know that Facebook Twitter and all these kind of you know social media platforms are kind of using our information and everything so what’s happening is the youth they are maybe a lot of them are stuck to the computer but also whilst being stuck to the computer there is a new movement love you who are basically thinking of right I’ve got a brain you know I can think you know I I can do something you know I could be a politician or I could be you know an important person and that’s why that’s also trans transitioned into your movements that black lives matter as well like you know before there would be like so you know the black person is a pop star the black persons are Rihanna or the black persons this you know it’s like actually no now the black person isn’t just a pop star it isn’t just a brilliant at marathon that black person and that Asian and minority ethnic all of them can critically think there the lawyers the doctors surgeons the professors the philosophers the creatives so in a way there seems to be more of a radical critical response to consumerism and I think in the next 5 to 10 years we’re going to see the that more thought provoking ideas coming through fashion and I think that’s what yeah and we’re not just about we’re not just about you know wearing the next Gucci or Prada

Like the social political movements around us are shaping every industry including fashion of course will be alone happen every browser bring up photos on Instagram with black models it was so weird it was on the face with everyone knew what they’re doing but they were still doing it just to be a part of the movement whether it’s a brand or a magazine they were like we support this 

Ram – that’s the way but yeah you get involved but it was it was like 

Yeah could get involved but it was it was like a weird in a way it was weird as well because okay yeah you support this but why haven’t you support it for 80 years exactly you know why haven’t you swear you supporting it now when you could have you should have been supporting all this long time you know whether you’re black white Chinese or whatever you know and now it’s gone the other way where there now they’re kind of feeling guilty so that only partly the black people on there yeah that’s a big problem is positive discrimination what about the Asians what about the Chinese what about you know people from different races what about the Armenians you know what about the Syrians what about the afghanistanis they don’t care all they care about this big capitalism it’s all about capitalism to them so in a way they want to make make amends for that for making themselves better 

it’s like a sort of greenwashing yeah but social greenwashing… do you agree?

Ram – Totally so there isn’t there needs to be more you know there needs to be more genuine effort to be apart of something in the middle global you know global but they’re not you know still if you’re looking it there is a stir there’s still a massive why for example why is there only one Indian designer who’s been invited to Paris Couture Week – Manish Arora what about all the others ? Manish is the only one really and maybe Rahul Mishra, Falguni and Shane did it for a while but now well the others you know why they don’t want them you know and it this is it I would say it’s pure discrimination I think they think that okay we’ve got an Indian in the mix mine lets digress yeah get some other people so and the Koreans are fantastic and then they just don’t bother you know so it’s all kind of it’s a very elitist structured industry which fashion always is always being elitist I think so there needs to be this discussion where it is not it’s not good enough just to put you know the black model in 50 shows and say oh where equal no it’s not it needs to be thought at a different level that is not just unit should be unified at every level should be unified.

did you read that tweet by this writer called Samantha Harden she’s contributing to my magazine what happened last showing the wheatfields in front so yeah so then the model line now was very diverse prom like everyone but the whole team was quite yeah so she just put this is so true though true yeah like Oh my God it’s on our faces we’ve seen it everyone yeah but you know one just notices that they just think about Oh no we have a coloured girl catwalk line up so well 

Ram – yeah but they need total diversity that teams as well and then you to diversity in the teams are not just black but But should be all races you know and I wouldn’t just say they would need to have people from all races for the sake of it it should be justified if those people they have are truly talented now if you have like say for example you know a big company like Dior most probably get there embellishment and in India in Lucknow or the embroidery done there why are those Indian embroiderers who are sitting there in some sweatshop in the middle of Lucknow not being employed by the atelier in Paris and not having the same pay structure as the people yeah 

recognition yeah

 I  agree with you because I studied this thing earlier from giving out submitting a pitch, about how Hermes puts up a post that shows how carefully a bags handcrafted or had design crafted but when but when Donatella Versace showcase the chill with addressing the green one which is made in India no one cared about it was embroidered in Mumbai yeah no it was nothing so it was just no recognition it’s like I read this article by Phillida Jay in The New Yorker then said that it’s like the French couture industry always a massive debt to Indian art schools in heritage crafts because they’ve never given us recognition and it bothers me and that’s one of the categories that I’m going to include for the content because it’s so important but it’s not recognised but people love it people think it’s fascinating oh this is such interesting word lovely blah but you need to recognise you need to know the people as well who done it. 

The Dazed report also pointed out that consumers are eager to read content that has been produced by non-western influences. Do you agree with that? 

Ram – The reader in the West wants to know more what comes out of these heritage communities head which designers from for example Valley or India or Rajasthan where you know of course people know okay this has been made in India but they would like to know more about it and yeah just like not just read about it and forget about it don’t know about it if you’re buying something is in need 

Did you have any personal experiences or challenges that you face while growing up or a living as British with an Indian heritage growing up in London? Did you face any challenges while expressing yourself? Your style is of hybrid nature, what uprooted this? 

I think in a way I suppose me dressing up became a like an armour to me you know being  a British Indian in a predominantly Caucasian school where firstly they would mock you, they would look at you and there would be this level of racism which was very high at that time so how I counteracted that was with fashion for becoming more fashionable making sure you know even if it was a big brands. At the time Topman was really big and everyone was crazy about it so if you have the latest thing from Topman or Vivienne Westwood at the time people would people in the know would think he’s a bit cool isn’t he? He’s not like someone who just goes down the street to buy you know clothes from Burton. So really it was more act for me, it was more about fitting in. It was more about trying to be accepted because at the time. I felt more confident through the clothes I wore and how I paired them up with small Indian things like a pin or a badge, that made me more unique.